Natural balances in the game.

Ledo_5678

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Oct 11, 2013
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The game has certain natural balances in it that I believe we should keep in the game and not remove.
(some examples) with a 255 cannon. The natural balance is that you're going to have to place 255 sand every time you shoot.
With a huge cannon, a natural balance is that it's going to take a while to build.
Same with a 200 chunk base, the defenses are going to take much longer to build.
A 20x20 chunk cacti farm should have to take you VERY LONG to build.

Printer ruins and off sets any natural balance there is to the game. I don't believe people should be able to have alts that auto place sand for them. No bots to afk 24/7 make cacti farms for them, building a 7 chunk cannon in 20min. What kind of a server do you guys want to play? You're too deep in this new age faction bullshit. My perspective on the situation is very clear along with all other players who have yet to even discover what printer is. With The slow "progression" or route that factions took you guys slowly became accustom to your environment and aren't even able to identify what's wrong with it. Why should I not take my ideas/concepts/perspective and make my own server? Why should I still be loyal to gontroller given the context and how bestle treats his players? At what point after incompetence and stubbornness should I start my own server? 1 year into everyone having to deal with bestle and gontroller as a whole? 2 years, 5? I could jump into the discord focus group right now, Lay out a plan for gontroller that will set them up for life. Identifying all of the problems, why they are caused and how to fix them along side how to capitalize on the "new" influx of players that are coming back to minecraft in 2019 which will be a once in a life time oppurtunity. Even if I did that. bestle would not only not appreciate it, but he would simply not follow a completely done for you, ideas with not only common sense backing them but evidence based features/ideas that players want; polished completed plan. On top of that he wouldn't and does not have open conversation / sharing of ideas and whichever ones are the best hold up the most. He would/has simply not respond(Ed) because he does not have the intellect to openly discuss and or debate the future plans of something he pretends to be passionate about.
 

lunaetic

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More perspective and constructive criticism, less of the cynicism (assuming the end goal here is to convince people to work toward a vision more in line with yours).
But on the actual points related to time, size, cheating, and game mechanics: +1.
And also, I think the 3 month map time is spot on.
 
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gir99

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Jan 13, 2013
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I don't understand why you think removing printer is so good? No one builds walls by hand and stacking sand is super easy for big facs even without printer, all it does is hurt the little guy.
I don't care about having printer but it's really not even close to a make or break for the server.
Theres no natural balance to the game everyone wants to not be raided and every autistic wants to raid nightly. You can't have both, especially if you want this game play and extremely long maps. The players have withering dedication.

You make some good suggestions but if you are not staff of the server at the end of the day how can you get mad your ideas aren't being implemented?

Imo vaelox was way more polished than gontroller ever was unforunately it was probably a bit restrictive. My opinion is we are better off fixing vaelox with fresh ideas and fixing broken gameplay than returning to gontroller.

Also i dont see any reason not to have long maps but i really dont think once again, this fixes underlying problems
 
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g33builder

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The game has certain natural balances in it that I believe we should keep in the game and not remove.
(some examples) with a 255 cannon. The natural balance is that you're going to have to place 255 sand every time you shoot.
With a huge cannon, a natural balance is that it's going to take a while to build.
Same with a 200 chunk base, the defenses are going to take much longer to build.
A 20x20 chunk cacti farm should have to take you VERY LONG to build.

Printer ruins and off sets any natural balance there is to the game. I don't believe people should be able to have alts that auto place sand for them. No bots to afk 24/7 make cacti farms for them, building a 7 chunk cannon in 20min. What kind of a server do you guys want to play? You're too deep in this new age faction bullshit. My perspective on the situation is very clear along with all other players who have yet to even discover what printer is. With The slow "progression" or route that factions took you guys slowly became accustom to your environment and aren't even able to identify what's wrong with it. Why should I not take my ideas/concepts/perspective and make my own server? Why should I still be loyal to gontroller given the context and how bestle treats his players? At what point after incompetence and stubbornness should I start my own server? 1 year into everyone having to deal with bestle and gontroller as a whole? 2 years, 5? I could jump into the discord focus group right now, Lay out a plan for gontroller that will set them up for life. Identifying all of the problems, why they are caused and how to fix them along side how to capitalize on the "new" influx of players that are coming back to minecraft in 2019 which will be a once in a life time oppurtunity. Even if I did that. bestle would not only not appreciate it, but he would simply not follow a completely done for you, ideas with not only common sense backing them but evidence based features/ideas that players want; polished completed plan. On top of that he wouldn't and does not have open conversation / sharing of ideas and whichever ones are the best hold up the most. He would/has simply not respond(Ed) because he does not have the intellect to openly discuss and or debate the future plans of something he pretends to be passionate about.
Why not just allow the map to go as long as there is comp? I think it would be rather short sided to pick a flat date when we have 0 evidence the map will even last that long if not last beyond the length set.
 
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Ledo_5678

New Member
Oct 11, 2013
22
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I don't understand why you think removing printer is so good? No one builds walls by hand and stacking sand is super easy for big facs even without printer, all it does is hurt the little guy.
I don't care about having printer but it's really not even close to a make or break for the server.
Theres no natural balance to the game everyone wants to not be raided and every autistic wants to raid nightly. You can't have both, especially if you want this game play and extremely long maps. The players have withering dedication.

You make some good suggestions but if you are not staff of the server at the end of the day how can you get mad your ideas aren't being implemented?

Imo vaelox was way more polished than gontroller ever was unforunately it was probably a bit restrictive. My opinion is we are better off fixing vaelox with fresh ideas and fixing broken gameplay than returning to gontroller.

Also i dont see any reason not to have long maps but i really dont think once again, this fixes underlying problems
For the sand stacking etc yea that is a good point. I mean it would hurt the little guy more. For that specific example only; I can see that. But at minimum when a larger faction raids, they're going to then have to use some man power towards placing sand instead of pvping. Printer just buffs everything and that's the problem I have with it. There's certain things to removing tedious tasks like being able to gen walls which I love and was suggested all throughout gontroller. We all agree that we can reach a balance though right? or at least there's such thing as making tasks too easy right? That's one of the problems with printer. It turns factions into op factions. If that's what you like then that's your thing just like im against god apple pvp but some are for it. Some are for the busted economy everything done for you op faction servers.

No natural balance to the game? I mean there is though. There's also natural balance to certain things that parallel to all things in life. Huge things should take huge amounts of time to build. In life, in minecraft. Servers are just allowing hacks.

I'm not really mad at them for not implementing ideas that aren't necessarily my ideas but a somewhat popular opinion/ view point from old gen players. I know I'm not staff and would never want to be. If you're referencing when I say some words about bestle that's an entirely different story and it's not really a personal thing but more of an observation of what happened in the past with his relationship with his playerbase.

The whole vaelox polishing thing. You're falling for the same trick. New gontroller will be vaelox but polished. Just re branded as gontroller so he can scam all the vaelox players.


Reading your last sentence. What are some underlying problems that you notice in specific to vaelox?
 

Ledo_5678

New Member
Oct 11, 2013
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Why not just allow the map to go as long as there is comp? I think it would be rather short sided to pick a flat date when we have 0 evidence the map will even last that long if not last beyond the length set.
Yea. That is the best answer to the map length question. I believe most of us are on board with this. Especially considering we all come from gontroller which had map length perfectly in doing what you just said.
 
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gir99

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Jan 13, 2013
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For the sand stacking etc yea that is a good point. I mean it would hurt the little guy more. For that specific example only; I can see that. But at minimum when a larger faction raids, they're going to then have to use some man power towards placing sand instead of pvping. Printer just buffs everything and that's the problem I have with it. There's certain things to removing tedious tasks like being able to gen walls which I love and was suggested all throughout gontroller. We all agree that we can reach a balance though right? or at least there's such thing as making tasks too easy right? That's one of the problems with printer. It turns factions into op factions. If that's what you like then that's your thing just like im against god apple pvp but some are for it. Some are for the busted economy everything done for you op faction servers.

No natural balance to the game? I mean there is though. There's also natural balance to certain things that parallel to all things in life. Huge things should take huge amounts of time to build. In life, in minecraft. Servers are just allowing hacks.

I'm not really mad at them for not implementing ideas that aren't necessarily my ideas but a somewhat popular opinion/ view point from old gen players. I know I'm not staff and would never want to be. If you're referencing when I say some words about bestle that's an entirely different story and it's not really a personal thing but more of an observation of what happened in the past with his relationship with his playerbase.

The whole vaelox polishing thing. You're falling for the same trick. New gontroller will be vaelox but polished. Just re branded as gontroller so he can scam all the vaelox players.


Reading your last sentence. What are some underlying problems that you notice in specific to vaelox?
Ok actually I re-read the natural balance bit and get what you mean. I agree to an extent. For example if we made TNT so expensive no one could afford it and then made people build walls by hand and tweaked it I'm the server would find its own balance in that respect (I would actually like to see how that turns even though I imagine people would hate it).
The problem I see is that there's a difference between something being annoying and something screwing with the balance. Even if we stopped printer you can't stop people using schematics and if you have 3 or 4 players using schematics building cannons is really fast regardless. Obviously if we made spawners way more expensive/cheaper there would be a huge change in the servers balance. Basically what I'm saying here is if the server is really really broken then you kind of need to change bigger things than printer right?

Honestly as far as my issues with Vaelox go or factions in general I don't really have any. The main thing I didn't like about vaelox was the player base and the lack of creativity. Vaelox was actually really balanced into the later maps (it was OP but you can have balance when everyone is OP or everyone has nothing).

My only faults with factions is the economy sucks compared to similar types of games, theres very little new players, the game seems to be to focused on earning money even though theres literally nothing to buy. (literally the most expensive items are what a mil? thats childs play people make hundreds of mils by themselves... and those items are things you probably had tons of in the first week).

All of my problems just boil down to the fact you basically cap the game after about a week and then you are just trying to be f top. I'm not really advocating for changing the server though just stating what I would personally like it to be but I'm also a long term player and would be happy if they just kept a polished game play and didn't scare players off. But if the gameplay was very different as in way harder or different mechanics I'd probably have more fun but for me personally changing things like printer don't make the game more difficult just more annoying.

TL/DR I totally agree you should have to work and be smart to achieve things like large bases and raids but I think doing it well would require a lot of super difficult changes. Also I had fun on Vaelox and thought it was more polished than all the other factions servers I've played aside from the average player base (gontroller is def better here).
 
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Vilanoxx

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Dec 27, 2013
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The game has certain natural balances in it that I believe we should keep in the game and not remove.
(some examples) with a 255 cannon. The natural balance is that you're going to have to place 255 sand every time you shoot.
With a huge cannon, a natural balance is that it's going to take a while to build.
Same with a 200 chunk base, the defenses are going to take much longer to build.
A 20x20 chunk cacti farm should have to take you VERY LONG to build.

Printer ruins and off sets any natural balance there is to the game. I don't believe people should be able to have alts that auto place sand for them. No bots to afk 24/7 make cacti farms for them, building a 7 chunk cannon in 20min. What kind of a server do you guys want to play? You're too deep in this new age faction bullshit. My perspective on the situation is very clear along with all other players who have yet to even discover what printer is. With The slow "progression" or route that factions took you guys slowly became accustom to your environment and aren't even able to identify what's wrong with it. Why should I not take my ideas/concepts/perspective and make my own server? Why should I still be loyal to gontroller given the context and how bestle treats his players? At what point after incompetence and stubbornness should I start my own server? 1 year into everyone having to deal with bestle and gontroller as a whole? 2 years, 5? I could jump into the discord focus group right now, Lay out a plan for gontroller that will set them up for life. Identifying all of the problems, why they are caused and how to fix them along side how to capitalize on the "new" influx of players that are coming back to minecraft in 2019 which will be a once in a life time oppurtunity. Even if I did that. bestle would not only not appreciate it, but he would simply not follow a completely done for you, ideas with not only common sense backing them but evidence based features/ideas that players want; polished completed plan. On top of that he wouldn't and does not have open conversation / sharing of ideas and whichever ones are the best hold up the most. He would/has simply not respond(Ed) because he does not have the intellect to openly discuss and or debate the future plans of something he pretends to be passionate about.
Woahhh no way man, I wish I had supernatural insight into matters that I have completely no idea about and could determine how to fix anything based off my personal opinions.

Do you even realize how you sound right now? Literally all you're doing is describing a fantasy vision that embodies your personal ideals, do you think this current server got to where it was like that? It's been refined as the gamemode has evolved over the years. It wasn't a server owner that made it the way it currently is, it's the players who play at an aggressive pace.

Yeah I've decided to go camping with my friends for the weekend, let me just tell everyone to rub sticks together for an hour because it serves for a better and more wholesome experience than using the lighters we packed. Said no one ever.
 

g33builder

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The whole vaelox polishing thing. You're falling for the same trick. New gontroller will be vaelox but polished. Just re branded as gontroller so he can scam all the vaelox players.
Are you not describing every video game sequel? Bestle depends on his earnings from coding plugins to make a living. If you can really blame him for having several servers that both lasted years then I don't know what to tell you.

And all that is ignoring the hundreds of hours our devs have put into making the server different from vaelox and all the other faction servers. We have no intent to re-release vaelox with slight changes and push it to players as a the rebirth of gontroller.